This may seem like backlash to Sir J's recent post but it isn't really.
It was about 3/4 written already. His post just gave me a focal point to tie it together better. And, ok, the impetus to finish.
So what the n00b is wondering today is:
Does the essence of femininity lie in an intrinsic quality or the external trappings?
Sir J did address both nature and looks but the greek chorus of comments pretty much focused on the external. Following the accepted definitions then, the feminine woman wears makeup, blowdries and laquers her hair, has her nails done, wears dresses and heels and slinky lingerie, etc., etc. ...
Please don't misunderstand. I'm not casting aspersions on anyone's tastes, these are all perfectly lovely qualities. It just got me thinking...
My mom was the type of lady you rarely see make anymore. Charming and lovely, she had the kind of presence that makes men stand up straighter and muzzle their cussing.
The beauty mantra that I was raised on was that less is more. Mom's makeup consisted of a dab of lipstick and a lick of powder. (And you were always supposed to blot off more than half of what you'd put on.) Nails were to be short, clean, and unpolished, clothing neat. It was class, not glamor, but she turned more (respectful) heads than most of us can ever hope to. It didn't hurt that she was also beautiful but that really wasn't all there was to it. Her attitude, carriage, and personality were even more striking.
There may have been other lessons she was saving for when I hit my teens but we weren't lucky enough to have her that long. And as the only girl out of quite a number of boys on both sides of my family, there were no female relatives to guide me. So all I know are those early lessons of simplicity and what I've picked up along the way. Which is:
I am not a girly girl.
If I try to wear lipstick, I look like I should be on a street-corner somewhere. Many shades have been tried - Burt's Bee's "Rhubarb" Lip Shimmer is about my limit. I might wear mascara if it didn't make my eyelashes whack against the inside of my glasses at every blink. But it does, so that's out.
My hair defies all attempt at order. The more you try to direct it, the worse it looks. (Any hairdresser I've ever had will confirm this.)
I try to keep my nails clean and neat but, hellooo, I work on computers for a living. Nails break or tear about once every two days. I gave up nail polish years ago because it only lasts about 3 hours intact.
I've already discussed the absurdity of me wearing dresses. It simply isn't practical for what I do.
On the plus side, I do adore shoes. (Which is amusing when you consider that I spend most of my time barefooted.) But one ankle has been badly sprained five times in the last 30 years. (Did I mention my unfortunate klutz tendency?) Heels are no longer my friend.
And my taste in lingerie is between me and God. (With occasional viewings by appointment only.)
Yet I do not consider myself unfeminine. I may not be a girl but I am definitely a woman. Outlook, personality, intricacies, all are quintessentially feminine. I play, I tease, I love to flirt (and have even been known to be fairly successful.) I'm not, perhaps, a stereotypical female. Frankly, I'm stronger and more intelligent than the norm. But no man who has dated me has ever said, "Honey, couldn't you try to be more girly?" either.
So why do I wince when I read things like that post?
Could I be, oh, I don't know, thinking like a girl?
16 comments:
I have been properly put in my place. That post was a moment of whimsy and yes bad me for extending and outdated sterotype of womanhood.
For the record real beauty is a style that comes from with in and is not based on clothes or make up or hair. It comes from a confidence and a sense of knowing. It sound like your mother knew that and her daughter does too.
OMG girl, you are singing my song. I've never been a girlie girl either, and I took flak for it when I was younger. I just didn't care... I refused to be any less than me.
I never wore makeup and everyone made fun of me in high school. Now people tell me, "yeah, but you have a natural beauty, you don't need makeup". Well duh! It has nothing to do with me having natural beauty. It has to do with me being comfortable with my own face. After a while you come to love the face you see in the mirror every day... if it's covered in makeup, then that's the face you will learn to love.
Same with my nails. I won't wear them long. They're always kept short and clean... and semi manicured. I love my nails looking shiny and healthy... and I can't stand nail polish. It's more of a nuisance than it's worth... and it's actually not good for your nails either. It starves them of oxygen and turns them an icky yellow color.
I haven't worn heels since I was 14. My mom forced me to wear them. I fell down the stairs and sprained my ankle and haven't worn them since. Heels are not good for you either... they can cause all kinds of joint issues and ruin your posture.
And my favorite lingerie? Nothing more or less than my birthday suit! :-D
Does that make me any less feminine? I don't think so!
spirited
I think you're comparing apples and oranges really. J's post noted two distinct aspects of femininity in fact, looks and....I've forgotten the exact word now, I would say attitude but I think he said something similar but not that. Point being, you sound like you're pretty feminine to me in attitude. Not so much in style of fashion. If you're happy that way you're probably attractive to a lot of men, though not all. On the other hand, I have friends that can't stand a girlie girl who's always fussing over her clothes and refusing to allow you to touch her hair lest it be mussed. If she isn't a tomboy, neither of these guys is interested.
If the stereotype applauded makes you wince, it’s probably because you feel some kind of pressure to be those things and don’t feel you can achieve it, or more likely just don’t want to. I wonder if you’ve ever consulted a professional? Not the college girl at the Lancolme counter in the mall, but a professional beauty consultant? I can’t help but notice you say a hint of color is as much as you can manage and you can’t wear mascara because you’re eye lashes strike your glasses lenses. Any chance those just aren’t the things you need? Oh the irony if you find you’re the girl other women are jealous of for her naturally long lashes. If only they had your lashes, they wouldn’t need mascara. Maybe you need a little definition somewhere else and should leave the lashes alone. If you were to learn a trick or two that you felt improved your appearance you might find it a more appealing task to hold to. Of course you don’t want to deal with make-up if you aren’t getting anything out of it.
Personally, I like long legs, long hair, and long nails. If it was up to me, the next fashion style to return would be the 1940’s female. Ankle length dresses and hair pinned up under hats. Strapless gowns with full length opera gloves. High arched eyebrows. Rita Heyworth, Ava Gardner, Lila Leeds. The ultimate pin up, Betty Paige (Without the fetish gear).
The thing to realize is, that’s lust. That’s her body, which is basically a personal transportation and entertainment device. The woman who lives inside is made up of other things. Sweetness of temperament, a forgiving nature, loyalty, knowing when to stroke my ego and when to let me alone, that’s the part of femininity that I think men fall in love with, and love is better than lust any day. Now, if a man should happen to find a woman (Or two) with that feminine attitude to make you love her who is living in a body that causes you to drool with lust, then he is almost as lucky a bastard as me. Congratulations to him, I hope he realizes what he has and doesn’t screw it up.
I’m afraid my thoughts are wandering. Sorry, it was a long day and technically it started yesterday so I might seem a bit fuzzy, but to answer your question
Does the essence of femininity lie in an intrinsic quality or the external trappings?
I vote intrinsic quality. But very few women with that intrinsic quality to understand the male mind don’t make use of the man’s lizard brain by appealing to it with her external trappings.
Let me put the shoe on the other foot. Of late I’ve been thinking about “Manhood” And what that entails, and how it’s changed over time. What in your opinion are the undeniable qualities of masculinity? Attitude? Muscles? Guns and stuffed dead animals as home décor? What kind of man appeals to you? Macho, Metro, or borderline Gay?
Sir J-
I really wasn't trying to put you in your place. There was nothing "wrong" with the opinion you offered. You did note both nature and looks in your post and in fact put the inner nature first. I just wanted to consider another viewpoint.
I actually thought this was another of those lovely posts of yours that make me smile. You're so obviously wild about h that it always gives me the warm and fuzzies. :-)
spirited-
Glad to have you in my corner!
on refusing to "be anything less than me." -- that's basically my theory. That stuff isn't me. I have tried, because I know it catches the eye and gives you a better chance of drawing someone in so you can then wow them with personality. However, it just plain doesn't work for me. Just as there are certain clothes that I put on and my friends say, "Nice but not you - take it off.", the frou-frou stuff turns me into another person. Why do I want to draw someone in under false pretenses? It's shooting yourself in the foot.
MC-
I did note that Sir J's post touched on both aspects but you're right that I quickly moved on to the externals.
Would you be terribly upset if I said I was overcome by giggles at the thought of being told to seek professional help over my makeup aversion? I do know exactly what you mean, tho' and you're right. I just enjoyed the momentary visual. *grin*
That's an excellent point about women knowing to use the external trappings to appeal to the lizard brain. Love is better than lust but as I note above, a guy has to be drawn to talk to you before he falls in love with the good stuff inside.
And I've been thinking about considering masculinity, as well, so I'm withholding my answers for now, OK?
Jz
Your mother sounds like a beautiful woman and a strong, positive, influence in your life. I imagine she would be so proud of you.
You've covered a lot of subjects in this post. I have never really tried to define femininity. To me, there are so many different types of women, many of whom I admire, or who fascinate or impress me. I have to believe that individual men are attracted to a particular combination of qualities in an individual woman. Of course there are archetypes; men have been pursuing women for ages now so it was inevitable. And the particular outward form that becomes associated with a supposed set of intrinsic qualities changes over the ages as well.
It's easy for me to say that I don't do my hair or wear makeup or whatever it is because I just can't do it well, and that is part of the issue. I do often feel like a farce when I try, lipstick on a pig anyone...? I also have profession that requires very sensible shoes. But beyond that, growing up, a lot of the women close to me would never let themselves be seen without their hair and makeup, clothes, etc being perfect, but their actual lives were in shambles. It just seemed like the effort was being put to the wrong place. It seemed like a cover up. In a rare nod to self confidence on my part - i decided that i didn't fit that model so i would stop trying. There is sucha a thing as gilding the lilly also (just kidding - my self confidence doesn't get that high).
In the end, we are visual creatures. The message conveyed by the form is strong. Many men (and women) are shallow and the form is everything, and that just is what it is. Many men and women are not, they truly see the whole person, but still have their preferences as far as what appeals visually, and that is what it is as well. It is unfortunate when assumptions are made about the person underneath because of the wrapping, it is also unfortunate that so many women (and men) are made to feel that the appearance is what is really important. How we feel about ouselves, how we choose to present oursleves - they are all part of us. I never would have attracted a shallow, appearances oriented man, and I would never have been interested in such a one anyhow.
gg-
(did you notice that spirited also seems to think that I can sing? I love you guys, deluded tho' you both may be!)
You and MC are right, of course, that there are lots of different types and tastes out there. Which makes it even more important to keep in mind that while appearance is overly-important to the species, what is attractive about that appearance varies greatly from one person to another. No one need despair!
You don't give yourself enough credit. ;)
I certainly don't mind getting dressed up once in a while... and it does turn me into a different person too. Sometimes it's fun to be someone else for a while. It's the ones who need to be someone else on a regular basis that I feel sorry for.
You're right, it doesn't work when trying to draw someone in because eventually they see the real you and if that real you isn't the kind of thing they're attracted to then you've lost.
I've always felt it's so much simpler to just be yourself and attract those who want someone like you. Takes too much energy to do things any other way.
spirited
Jz, I will share with you a small secret, there exists in this world one picture of my bottom. And, if I must say so myself, it is a heck of a picture. A friend of mine who has seen it begs me to put it on the blog. He swears he can have me married in 90 days if I would just post the pic.
Nope, no can do. I know what I look like, my prince charming will have to be drawn to my femininity not my feminine wiles. Men are visual creatures to be true, but if my fascinating personality and sharp intellect won't land him, he doesn't deserve to see my bottom anyway.
I used to own a construction company. I can build things with my own two hands. And as much as I love high heels, I love my filthy pink work boots too. I am a woman no matter what I wear. The finest dressed woman who is coarse or uncouth will not attract a man because of her heels or her jewels.
In the land of the fundamentalists where I grew up, women did not wear makeup, maybe a little powder and some darn colorless lipstick or chapstick. Grace, charity, love, warm spirits, smiles, the gift of helps. Those were the attributes of women that were desirable.
You are on the tech/ops side of the house, I am on the sales and marketing side of the house. Different audiences, different costuming. I hope you don't take what Sir J said to be exclusive and the only definition of pretty or feminine possible.
Many men like the frippery but as you noted, even when I am in sweats with flour in my hair (like now) my inner girl still states her case. Hopefully my Mr Right For Me will like both sides, I expect him to invest untold millions in keeping me in heels and lipsticks :)
spirited-
hold that thought until you've actually heard me sing!
It definitely is easier to just "be yourself and attract those who want someone like you." Makes for some interesting job interviews, too! ;-)
CD-
T'aint my bottom that's gonna do the trick but your point is well-made. Appreciate the whole or you don't get dibs on the parts. ooo-ra!
BTW-
CD's pink workboots made me think of the bright pink extension currently in my hair...
October is Breast Cancer Awareness month.
Be smart, get tested. Don't let another young girl go through adolescence without her mom!
oh that post was so mis understood and poorly concieved. To Cd's point I did not mean for a minute to suggest that the feminine woman I described was the only type of feminity or even the only one I like. I was in a very specific headspace when I wrote it and clearly should have waited a day or two.
Sir J
I find almost all types of women to be attractive and would even like pink hair (something h did once when we were younger). Sweats or jeans and mud are all sexy in the right context and sure a women can be exactly as I described visualy and still not pull it off.
Your post was NOT badly conceived!
I grant you, a little more emphasis on your initial paragraph about the inner femininity might have forestalled a little aggro.
But it was a nice piece, indeed. It had charm and humor and showed that you love and appreciate your wife.
Which is WAY more important than making a couple of women you don't really know from a hole in the wall wince.
Your taste in lingerie is greatly appreciated in Heaven, Hell and in between.
God
Oh, dear Lord-
Are we thinking green??
Yes, dear Child, but several other colors make their appearance before my divine eye, too.
Make thine lingerie pleasing unto the Lord...
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